Crosskart!

"Snuze: Needs another Swede" (markg)
05/13/2015 at 11:20 • Filed to: None

Why don’t we have these in America?!?

DISCUSSION (17)

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/13/2015 at 11:23

Probably either due to the fun police or the bureaucrats.

Who are actually the fun police in disguise.

ntl0505 > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/13/2015 at 11:24

We do. They are called UTVs. Here is me getting some sick air in mine:

Kinja'd!!!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
05/13/2015 at 11:25

Well I don’t mean so much directly importing them, but why is no one making them here? Why aren’t SCCA/NASA/etc. sanctioning races for something like this?

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/13/2015 at 11:28

Who said anything about importing them? I simply was using the fun police as a joke. Because it’s perceived as more dangerous than blah blah blah...

Example: Why don’t more people ride motorcycles to work? Because the fun police won’t allow it.

Now I know how Steve Lehto feels.

and 100 more > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/13/2015 at 11:33

But we have these, being developed and built in Texas: http://arx-racing.net/AKITA.html

Kinja'd!!!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
05/13/2015 at 11:39

I see, when you mentioned bureaucrats you got me thinking about the legal aspect which led to to think importation. But I understand what you mean now.

Although I think there’s plenty of other things out there for people to race that are just as if not more dangerous than Crosskarts that are at least relatively popular. Like motorcycles, motocross, etc.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > and 100 more
05/13/2015 at 11:43

Very cool! I didn’t know those existed, I’ll have to check them out. A friend and I have been talking about developing something very similar due to the lack of Crosskarts in America, so it’s interesting to see that someone else is already on it.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/13/2015 at 11:56

I plan to help remedy this.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
05/13/2015 at 12:00

Oh yeah? I’ve been thinking along the same lines.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/13/2015 at 12:52

I saw these a few months ago and fell in love with the concept. I think that there need to be more opportunities for home-built grassroots race cars. I want to build my own race car. Tone ones all look the same, though. Aren’t they supposed to be hone-built?

Snuze: Needs another Swede > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
05/13/2015 at 13:00

If you GIS for Crosskart, a lot of the images look like the above. Then there are some other ones that look similar but not like that. And a few oddballs. My guess is there’s 2 or 3 companies that make competitive chassis, and the rest are homebuilt.

I think these things have a lot of potential, and if you watch some of the videos from Finland, the seem to race them in anything - Rally, RallyX, road racing, ice racing. My friend and I keep kicking around the idea of building an american version. Rolling chassis, buyer provides a 600cc motorcycle engine. And offer different wheel/tire/suspension packages so they can be reconfigured for different types of racing. I think if we could keep it under $20k for the buy-in (rolling chassis and engine), and get SCCA/NASA to setup classes or class them competitively, it could be a real winner. Imagine, one vehicle that’s suitable for all types of racing.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/13/2015 at 13:43

I think it can be made cheaper. Cost should be the #1 concern with it.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
05/13/2015 at 14:02

Well I think you need to find a balance of cost vs. performance. No one is going to buy it if it’s slow and sucks. But you are right, you also can’t price yourself out of the market.

One thing we’re thinking of is using a 600cc engine. They are less powerful of course, but also a lot cheaper and more readily available - 600cc bikes outsell liter bikes by 3 to 1, if I remember correctly. It will still be plenty fast with the right gearing, and you’re pushing the limits of how much power you can put down on loose surface anyways.

The reason I say $20k all in is you’re looking at probably close to $10k for the chassis. Remember, you have to design it, test it, and get it certified. Also, the easiest way to build these things, from a startup perspective, is with tube steel, but you need to build jigs for it so you get a consistent product, and its going to take a lot of welding which jacks up the labor cost. It would be cool to do stuff like hydroforming or forging or whatnot, but the upfront cost for that is staggering.

Then you need to consider the engine and drive parts. One thing that we’d like to do is develop an F-N-R gearbox to add a reverse gear, as well as mount an LSD and possibly even quick-change gearing. It would be a huge leap forward over what’s out there now. It would add some cost, but we would also make it structural to help reduce weight. You also need to think about the rest of it - seat, dash, steering rack, hubs, brakes, wheels, etc. I think all this stuff can add up to $10k.

But this is just all ballpark figures. Naturally the goal is to get it as cheap as possible, without sacrificing quality and performance. Also, I think a big selling point would be that, with the right support, you could compete in a variety of series with the same car by only making suspension changes.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/13/2015 at 14:12

I’d go with a chain drive rear end to make any engine compatible and skip the transmission. Use the bike’s tranny, and link the footpeg to a sequential-style bar in the cockpit. Most are wet clutches, so can be shifted clutchless once the load is removed from it. Last time I checked, chain drive LSDs are about $1500 or so from Quaife. If it’s just a fixed rear drive, it also makes gearing changes super easy because it’s just a sprocket switch at that point. I know it’s a mix between performance and cost, but at $20k you’re looking at Spec Miata money which already has a huge field and a more than one series to compete in. I’m also pretty enamored by the super cheap builds that I saw when first looking into cross karts. I liked that anyone could make something relatively competitive in their garage.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
05/13/2015 at 14:55

We’re still debating chain drive vs. gearbox. I do like the chain drive for it’s cheapness and simplicity, and you’re right, gearing changes are a snap. We would still use the bikes tranny for it’s 6 forward gears, the gearbox would only add reverse. I just think it would be very handy to have a reverse, especially for events like rally. The downside is there’s no mechanically easy way to integrate reverse, and it’s not cheap. I do have some other ideas, I’m just not ready to reveal them yet. Hah!

And you’re right, $20k is pushing it, I think it’s a conservative estimate. We really need to cost everything out, it’s one of the items on our to-do list. But if we’re selling a product it has to be done right, and done safe, and be better than garage quality, and would be priced accordingly. I’m not interested in this to get rich (how do you make a small fortune in racing? start with a large one), but I would love to be able to develop an interesting product that catches on, and in turn need to be able to make a little bit of money to keep the business going to be able to continue to serve customers and in turn continue selling vehicles. But it’s all just ideas right now, we’ll see how it goes.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/14/2015 at 06:10

new business opportunity for you then!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > pip bip - choose Corrour
05/14/2015 at 08:26

That’s what I’m thinking.